There is great peace to be discovered in beauty, says writer Ryan Holiday. It’s all around us in expected places like nature, love and our loved ones but in less-expected ones, too — the smell of asphalt before the rain, dusty pawprints on a car, the fleeting quiet of an empty inbox.

In her blockbuster TED Talk, Susan Cain has a call to action: Take introverts seriously, and understand what they can do in the right environment. Ben Lillie called her up for an extended conversation about the terrors of public speaking, how her issue is one of civil rights, and the neuroscience behind personalities.